Check this one out, Adam:

http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html

Notice how a supreme hacker is actually very polite about Microsoft.

Just out of faint interest, who qualifies as an “extreme” Winbred?

Would it be somebody like me, who has spent more than 75% of their working life on non-Windows systems (VOS, Solaris, HP-UX, various embedded stuff and yes Linux)?

Or would it be something else?

“Just out of faint interest, who qualifies as an “extreme” Winbred?”

Someone who praises Windows 7 when OS X is clearly a better choice if you can afford it?

You purchase a new Windows 7 laptop, turn it on and messages like “Your antivirus will expire in 60 days, gimme 40 bucks or else you 'll have to uninstall the antivirus which will leave tons of crap in your system”, “you 'll have to download 1GB worth of security upgrades” and other stuff like that appear almost instantly. Screw that, i just got a new machine and want it t work. OS X just works.

“Your antivirus will expire in 60 days, gimme 40 bucks or else you 'll have to uninstall the antivirus which will leave tons of crap in your system.”

Ever noticed this thing call “Add/Remove Programs”? It’s been inside Control Panel since, I dunno – 1995?

“Ever noticed this thing call “Add/Remove Programs”? It’s been inside Control Panel since, I dunno – 1995?”

That thing that relies on the uninstaller that shipped with the software to make the removal, and if the uninstaller leaves a truckload of garbage behind, it will stay there forever?

McAfee is particularly guilty for this btw, and it ships with many PCs.

Removal of software and the whole mess with third party uninstallers was a major reason I left Windows. Along with crapware filled PCs. I don’t care who’s fault it is. I want things to work. The year is 2011, not 1995, and I think it’s time to demand our computers work without having to resort to manually deleting files or messing with third part software. It’s time to demand refinement folks. And OS X offer refinement.

“Ever noticed this thing call “Add/Remove Programs”? It’s been inside Control Panel since, I dunno – 1995?”

I’ve always wondered about that. Did the “Add” part ever work on any version of Windows?

Yes, it did, and does – it adds Windows components.

@Kurkos

You’re overdoing it, as per usual, programs in Windows can be uninstalled – if the OEM keeps putting crap on your machine, then buy elsewhere; your problems have nothing to do with Windows (again, as per usual).

It does on some programs – office springs to mind – where you could add or remove componants and even entire programs using the add/remove feature. I’ve also come accross a few programs that were able to sell other software through the same function. I note that they now call it simply 'programs and features’ instead.

“if the OEM keeps putting crap on your machine, then buy elsewhere; your problems have nothing to do with Windows (again, as per usual).”

Replace “Windows” with “Android”, and you get a pretty good argument against any criticism of Android.

Honestly, I’m surprised no one noticed how similar Windows and Android are.

> Someone who praises Windows 7 when OS X is clearly a better choice if you can afford it?

Clearly? OSX is ugly. It’s technically inferior. Its security still sucks. It’s produced by company that has consistent track record of ignoring customer problems (and blaming most problems on customers).

Can you be more specific? In which way is it “clearly better choise”

> You purchase a new Windows 7 laptop, turn it on and messages like “Your antivirus will expire in 60 days, gimme 40 bucks or else you 'll have to uninstall the antivirus which will leave tons of crap in your system”

Oh, now you want to discuss that YouDontNeedAntivirus stupidity? Yes, they are designed to protect users from their own stupidity (and/or fair mistakes).

> “you 'll have to download 1GB worth of security upgrades” and other stuff like that appear almost instantly

Oh, with Apple revolutionary reinventing delta updates maybe they’ll stop giving 4.5Gb updates for fscking XCode.

Even given the premise (which is half-baked as usual), that’s a pretty shoddy reason to call somebody an “extreme Winbred,” isn’t it?

What with being forced to work on their ghastly APIs, I probably have more reason than most to hate Microsoft. Offer me a sane alternative and I’ll jump at it.

The only person on this site who could remotely be called a “winbred” is Ian; and even then I’d suggest that he is “enthusiastic” rather than “extreme.”

@IMX64

This is true to an extent, but Google can keep OEMs in check with the Nexus line (100% uncrapified Android), because manufacturers know that if they overdo it and the crapware start annoying people (like it does on Windows) people will turn to the Nexus line, and another method of control is thr app market license.
Instead Microsoft has no control over what their OEMs bundlewith the OS.

Indeed, Android is nowhere near the degree of crapification Windows is. Crapware doesn‘t annoy you like it does on Windpws.

Also, how OS X is ugly? It boots faster, it‘s more responsive and ships with bundled tools that are actually usable (unlike the rich editing capabilities of movie maker and it‘s inability to save in any other format than WMV). Oh, and the drivers for the wifi and bluetooth aren‘t coded by underpaid Chinese, like in the case of the wifi and bluetooth drivers for many Windows laptops.

“Also, how OS X is ugly?”

Grey. Opaque grey, everywhere. Poor little icons don’t stand a chance against a sea of solid grey. It also gives me eyestrain after too much use (I kid you not). I spent 18 months with OSX, and the desire to hurl it out the window every 15 minutes never went away.

@Kurkos:

You really do live in your own little dream world, don’t you?

You’ve got absolutely no evidence for any of this. The whole idea of Windows being so full of uninstallable crap-ware that people are dropping it in droves is risible.

The Chinese slave labour thing is rich, coming from somebody who is prepared to put up with it as long as it’s used to build the hardware.

And this outrage, this sheer stupid bloody outrage, that if you choose a Windows machine, you might actually have to pay for specialised software?

Jeez. I hope the bank puts you on the customer support desk for a month as part of your training. You’d be a riot.

“Warning: your call may be monitored and recorded for quality control purposes. Also because practically everything that comes out of Kurkos’ mouth is so funny that we don’t want to miss a single beat.”

> Indeed, Android is nowhere near the degree of crapification Windows is.
I suppose that’s because you usually start with “conclusions” and then try to find “facts”.

> Also, how OS X is ugly?
It appears that I’m not alone. For me it’s all that childish droplet buttons and scrollbars, jumping icons, genie-leaking windows (yes, you HAVE TO do it slowly, so your awesomeness doesn’t go unnoticed), curly stacks and so on. They really should adopt spinning cubes and marching penguins to make the ugliness complete. And it’s only “look” part, I have A LOT of problems with “feel” part too.

Speaking of chinese slaves, writing wifi drivers, that’s probably why wifi “just works” in Lion. Not http://www.bing.com/search?q=osx+lion+wifi+problems
Could you imagine this to happen in “vertically integrated” product with nearly zero new features?

I wonder if you ever break away from RDF and stop making up this crap about Mac’s superior hardware support.

PS. BTW, Apple actually DOES use chinese slave labor, and Microsoft doesn’t.

You’re all missing the point. OS X is better because it comes with a feeling of superiority (Being “different” from the “sheep”).

In a sense, so does Linux, but it’s superiority of a different kind (moral superiority, apparently).

kurkosdr
you have been saying what my dad has been saying for decades. since 1984, apple, for all its faults, has been delivering a more refined user experience. thats not to say that their products are not overpriced, less reliable, and even technologically inferior then the PC makers. blue rays, fingerprint, quality speakers, business product line, etc.